hi all, i've read in many threads on web's about STR increases lethal blow (half kill in GF) success and critical dmg per skill
in previous server i used overenchat AS+CD and skill damage were equal to a +0 AS+CD
i dont know how works here, but i would like somebody with more experience answer that and please if it's possible, post a good source about a good description of STR effect because in official site does not descripbe anything like text in blue
http://www.lineage2.com/Knowledge/enhancements_2.html
STR increases skill crit rate
5 STR: 0.35
10 STR: 0.42
15 STR: 0.5
20 STR: 0.59
25 STR: 0.71
30 STR: 0.84
35 STR: 1.01
40 STR: 1.2
45 STR: 1.43
50 STR: 1.71
55 STR: 2.04
75 STR: 4.14
numbers are skill crits out of 15 skills used
patk has a small effect on blow damage but its so negaligable.
can i ask source of this ?
diego vargas
maxing STR on dagger is dumb, even on AW, if you put +5str on AW the difference isnt noticeable if theres any, belive me or not me and binkz were thinking alot about perfect dye's and in the end we both went -str
also about what slush said i dont really think that p.atk have anything to do with stabs dmg
this is very interesting topic, i will test the p.atk blow dmg difference buffless and than with might+g.might, whan im expecting is that the difference wont be noticeable since the stabs dmg is various more or less by ~200 so even if it gives anything you wont even know and if thats the case you might consider doing -9STR
well i saw damage diffrence when gave on adv +str dyes, and double stabs rate, it is dumb on pw but not on aw/th imo(specially th when u have so much con) -9str would really fak up dmg imo on daggers i dont advice that kind of dyes :D
+5 str on an AW isn't too noticeable, but when you compare it with -8 or -10 str its a pretty big difference.
If I was a TH I would probably get +4 str -4 con and probably nothing on AW or PW.
For olympiad however I would always go +4 str because skill crits against soulhounds and tanks can win you the fight
try test -10 str buffless vs +5 str with zerk/gmight/might
i found this
http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129328
but it also means that wr kinda sucks in damage and crit/lethal rates, any wrs playing here can speak up ? i dont think they suck tbh, imo wr is best dagger and dunno mby its somehow modified by dex too because it just doesnt seem right when all depends on str, and dagger who has lowest str pretty much same skilled daggers (th,pw,aw) pw has biggest chances, so question is if its just because skills(79 pw skill compared to other clases, 83, evasion crap, blow suces rates biggest blabla) or there is some other trick ?
well.... my style as Adventurer makes set -8 STR +4DEX +4CON... why?
DEX gives me more evasion, atk speed, speed (needed in adventurer)
CON : stun resist , more weight capability, so i can carry more CP pots on ;), and yea more HP oO
so.... i think to get more skill crit rate i can try overenchanting Assassination skill
pd: WTB Giant Codex Mastery xD
then u create of it pw who has no mortal strike no focus death and u just make hell knows what out of adv imo...
u have low dex on adv just deal with it imo, u have dash u have shadowstep, and still thats where comes party that th just sucks overall on this chronicle compared to other daggers and imo best dyes on th are like slush said, +str -con(4 or 5 depends on ur will)
QuoteSTR (Strength) physical attack, resistance to skills like curse: weakness
DEX (Dexterity) accuracy, critical rate, attack speed, movement speed, evasion, speed and recharge of physical skills, resistance to skills like dryad root
CON (Constitution) maximum HP, carrying capacity, HP regeneration rate, skills like poison
INT (Intelligence) magical attack (m.atk)
WIT (Wit) casting speed, magical critical rate, speed and recharge of magical skills, % xp restored with resurrection
MEN (Mentality) maximum MP, MP regeneration rate, magical defense, resistance to skills like sleep
that was changed?
why you are talking about crit rate and STR?
Hi there diego's offsprings 8)
Quote from: DRACUENOV on July 01, 2010, 11:30:18 PM
QuoteSTR (Strength) physical attack, resistance to skills like curse: weakness
DEX (Dexterity) accuracy, critical rate, attack speed, movement speed, evasion, speed and recharge of physical skills, resistance to skills like dryad root
CON (Constitution) maximum HP, carrying capacity, HP regeneration rate, skills like poison
INT (Intelligence) magical attack (m.atk)
WIT (Wit) casting speed, magical critical rate, speed and recharge of magical skills, % xp restored with resurrection
MEN (Mentality) maximum MP, MP regeneration rate, magical defense, resistance to skills like sleep
that was changed?
why you are talking about crit rate and STR?
It's no changed... but it seems that STR affect critical rate on dagger skills
Quote from: DRACUENOV on July 01, 2010, 11:30:18 PM
QuoteSTR (Strength) physical attack, resistance to skills like curse: weakness
DEX (Dexterity) accuracy, critical rate, attack speed, movement speed, evasion, speed and recharge of physical skills, resistance to skills like dryad root
CON (Constitution) maximum HP, carrying capacity, HP regeneration rate, skills like poison
INT (Intelligence) magical attack (m.atk)
WIT (Wit) casting speed, magical critical rate, speed and recharge of magical skills, % xp restored with resurrection
MEN (Mentality) maximum MP, MP regeneration rate, magical defense, resistance to skills like sleep
that was changed
why you are talking about crit rate and STR?
thats like c4 info
the description of stats is this diego guy too? so he writes that str influences crit skill rate so i guess question has been answeared
Quote from: Battousai on July 01, 2010, 10:48:05 PM
well.... my style as Adventurer makes set -8 STR +4DEX +4CON... why?
DEX gives me more evasion, atk speed, speed (needed in adventurer)
CON : stun resist , more weight capability, so i can carry more CP pots on ;), and yea more HP oO
so.... i think to get more skill crit rate i can try overenchanting Assassination skill
pd: WTB Giant Codex Mastery xD
yeah wright stop living interlude/hb times :D
really tho if your a TH and your going anything exept +STR you are bad.
Quote from: Slush on July 01, 2010, 11:44:42 PM
really tho if your a TH and your going anything exept +STR you are bad.
so, lower con to -8, and +4 str, +4 dex, yeah?
but then that dagger won't be able to carry much CP pots, pots, etc.
listen, thing is if u get con to lowered whats point of making th ?
I'd low str to improve dex, con is ok on th.
Quote from: DRACUENOV on July 01, 2010, 11:48:09 PM
Quote from: Slush on July 01, 2010, 11:44:42 PM
really tho if your a TH and your going anything exept +STR you are bad.
so, lower con to -8, and +4 str, +4 dex, yeah?
but then that dagger won't be able to carry much CP pots, pots, etc.
no, i wouldn't get -dex
cp pots are something that dramatically affect your dye setup. A TH with a decent belt and -4 con can still carry like 300+ cp pots
Quote from: Dranko on July 02, 2010, 12:02:08 AM
I'd low str to improve dex, con is ok on th.
again, u make pw out of th wich is fail because th has no focus death nor mortal strke - fail
http://www.editgrid.com/user/sepultribe/Gladiator_Damage_Calculator
http://www.frintezza.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-11128.html
i hope it helps
Quote from: Guardian on July 01, 2010, 11:37:25 PM
yeah wright stop living interlude/hb times :D
yea... u right, i come from a hb server xD
-4 dex +4 str(or con )
Why ?because Dex is like most worthless stat point ever,its like increasing +men on mage to get 2 mp more per tick and 30 mdef.
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 03:09:09 AM
-4 dex +4 str(or con )
Why ?because Dex is like most worthless stat point ever,its like increasing +men on mage to get 2 mp more per tick and 30 mdef.
because speed, evasion and attack speed are not important for a dagger?!?
I would go +4 str +5 dex -9 con on a th.
no dyes on aw,
elfs are ghey
Quote from: KnGhtmRe on July 02, 2010, 04:00:23 AM
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 03:09:09 AM
-4 dex +4 str(or con )
Why ?because Dex is like most worthless stat point ever,its like increasing +men on mage to get 2 mp more per tick and 30 mdef.
because speed, evasion and attack speed are not important for a dagger?!?
I would go +4 str +5 dex -9 con on a th.
no dyes on aw,
elfs are ghey
Speed ?Yes it is important but than again dagger is one of the few class which have passive for ++speed(which you can enchant),i wont even talk about talismans/buffs and such crap.
Evasion ?No not rly for that you have UE GW/EA/WR.
Attack speed ?Since it doesnt affect skill re-use anymore,it has lost its value for classes which rely on skills,even more there are so many buffs which increase your attack speed(warrior trigger,Gfury),that i doubt you will notice that -50 attack speed loss.
And than again im talking about end-game.
i cant see why people overrate dex
i agree, dex is shit - - - - - - - - - - -
and isn't men directly influencing resistance to most of the debuffs?
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 04:47:08 AM
Speed ?Yes it is important but than again dagger is one of the few class which have passive for ++speed(which you can enchant),i wont even talk about talismans/buffs and such crap.
Evasion ?No not rly for that you have UE GW/EA/WR.
Attack speed ?Since it doesnt affect skill re-use anymore,it has lost its value for classes which rely on skills,even more there are so many buffs which increase your attack speed(warrior trigger,Gfury),that i doubt you will notice that -50 attack speed loss.
And than again im talking about end-game.
U are a lil bit clueless I would say...and what end-game are u talking about actually? Coz I am not sure if u have seen some on Gracia Final.
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 04:47:08 AM
Speed ?Yes it is important but than again dagger is one of the few class which have passive for ++speed(which you can enchant),i wont even talk about talismans/buffs and such crap.
Evasion ?No not rly for that you have UE GW/EA/WR.
Attack speed ?Since it doesnt affect skill re-use anymore,it has lost its value for classes which rely on skills,even more there are so many buffs which increase your attack speed(warrior trigger,Gfury),that i doubt you will notice that -50 attack speed loss.
And than again im talking about end-game.
You need to enchant your skill for +eva and is way more important than speed.
+4 str -4 con,
+4 dex -4 con,
+4 wit -4 int (for casting noblesse) OR +1 str -1 con OR +1 dex -1 con,
so that dyes should be the best
The better option is : NO DYES !
Quote from: Bulle on July 02, 2010, 03:22:14 PM
The better option is : NO DYES !
(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg24.imageshack.us%2Fimg24%2F9373%2Fayfkmp.png&hash=1dd937fe26d723a60c71e10f1b97ec0883eb6a61)
Quote from: DRACUENOV on July 02, 2010, 03:08:59 PM
+4 str -4 con,
+4 wit -4 int (for casting noblesse) OR +1 str -1 con
so that dyes should be the best
fixed, dont make out of adv pw or u will really fail imo ;D
that if u talk about adv here ofc
Quote from: babyface on July 02, 2010, 03:35:41 PM
Quote from: DRACUENOV on July 02, 2010, 03:08:59 PM
+4 str -4 con,
+4 wit -4 int (for casting noblesse) OR +1 str -1 con
so that dyes should be the best
fixed, dont make out of adv pw or u will really fail imo ;D
that if u talk about adv here ofc
yeah, sure, then we can go
5 str -5 con,
+4 wit -4 int (for casting noblesse)
Imo its up to how you play your dagger and which of the daggers you play, but i prefer +4str -4con on AW. I like it glass-cannon style. Also what kinda dyes i get depend on what armor bonuses i got etc...
Dex is shit on most classes (except daggers ofc) imo.
if i'd play aw i would make +str-con for sure too nothing else, and i'd love to go back in time and think one more time with current knowledge when clicking select character- human fighter as dagger ;D
Quote from: DRACUENOV on July 02, 2010, 03:08:59 PM
+4 str -4 con,
+4 dex -4 con,
+4 wit -4 int (for casting noblesse) OR +1 str -1 con OR +1 dex -1 con,
so that dyes should be the best
why do the hell do you want to screw up th which biggest bonus is con and mirage if you lower con it will be just peace of shit not th either not pw or aw put +5 strengh -5 dex and be happy :D
-5 dex would very badly screw up th ;D
Quote from: Jacky on July 02, 2010, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 04:47:08 AM
Speed ?Yes it is important but than again dagger is one of the few class which have passive for ++speed(which you can enchant),i wont even talk about talismans/buffs and such crap.
Evasion ?No not rly for that you have UE GW/EA/WR.
Attack speed ?Since it doesnt affect skill re-use anymore,it has lost its value for classes which rely on skills,even more there are so many buffs which increase your attack speed(warrior trigger,Gfury),that i doubt you will notice that -50 attack speed loss.
And than again im talking about end-game.
U are a lil bit clueless I would say...and what end-game are u talking about actually? Coz I am not sure if u have seen some on Gracia Final.
Care to explain how im clueless ?
Or maybe you wanna say that dmv/squeez and some other good daggers who used these dyes are also clueless ?
And endgame is char with stacked sub class skills/skill enchants and high lvl support in pt.
You just dont understand that with lowering str/con you are loosing much more than lowering dex ? :)
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: Jacky on July 02, 2010, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 04:47:08 AM
Speed ?Yes it is important but than again dagger is one of the few class which have passive for ++speed(which you can enchant),i wont even talk about talismans/buffs and such crap.
Evasion ?No not rly for that you have UE GW/EA/WR.
Attack speed ?Since it doesnt affect skill re-use anymore,it has lost its value for classes which rely on skills,even more there are so many buffs which increase your attack speed(warrior trigger,Gfury),that i doubt you will notice that -50 attack speed loss.
And than again im talking about end-game.
U are a lil bit clueless I would say...and what end-game are u talking about actually? Coz I am not sure if u have seen some on Gracia Final.
Care to explain how im clueless ?
Or maybe you wanna say that dmv/squeez and some other good daggers who used these dyes are also clueless ?
And endgame is char with stacked sub class skills/skill enchants and high lvl support in pt.
You just dont understand that with lowering str/con you are loosing much more than lowering dex ? :)
I guess ill waste my precious time to explain you :] When we are talking about end game sir speed on dagger is one of most important stats (pw/aw cuz th haf dash) i would love to see healers outruning you in pvp. Now the evasion, which is prolly one of the most important things on daggers, it is actually useful when only dmg u can take is dmg from skills. I guess conclusion is that lowering these essential stats on daggers is simply retarded. About these almight skills which u named (ue/gw/wr)... I would like to introduce you a class called SoulHound, most of pvps vs good parties daggers are runing w/o most of buffs.
What does STR changes for dagger users:
1) Critical Rate of BLOW type skills.
15% at 35 STR
18% at 40 STR
21.5% at 45 STR
25.65% at 50 STR
12.6% at 30 STR
2) Lethal Rate, AKA Halfkill rate
3) Skill Mastery - it is affected by STR for all fighter classes - and 13 STR is about 35% difference in activation rate.
4) Focus Skill Mastery - doubles activation rate of Skill mastery
Quote from: Lire on July 02, 2010, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: Jacky on July 02, 2010, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 04:47:08 AM
Speed ?Yes it is important but than again dagger is one of the few class which have passive for ++speed(which you can enchant),i wont even talk about talismans/buffs and such crap.
Evasion ?No not rly for that you have UE GW/EA/WR.
Attack speed ?Since it doesnt affect skill re-use anymore,it has lost its value for classes which rely on skills,even more there are so many buffs which increase your attack speed(warrior trigger,Gfury),that i doubt you will notice that -50 attack speed loss.
And than again im talking about end-game.
U are a lil bit clueless I would say...and what end-game are u talking about actually? Coz I am not sure if u have seen some on Gracia Final.
Care to explain how im clueless ?
Or maybe you wanna say that dmv/squeez and some other good daggers who used these dyes are also clueless ?
And endgame is char with stacked sub class skills/skill enchants and high lvl support in pt.
You just dont understand that with lowering str/con you are loosing much more than lowering dex ? :)
I guess ill waste my precious time to explain you :] When we are talking about end game sir speed on dagger is one of most important stats (pw/aw cuz th haf dash) i would love to see healers outruning you in pvp. Now the evasion, which is prolly one of the most important things on daggers, it is actually useful when only dmg u can take is dmg from skills. I guess conclusion is that lowering these essential stats on daggers is simply retarded. About these almight skills which u named (ue/gw/wr)... I would like to introduce you a class called SoulHound, most of pvps vs good parties daggers are runing w/o most of buffs.
When we are talking about end game sir, stacked daggers can get close to 250 speed.
And -4 dex will never lower your speed so much ,that bp is faster than you,unless a)you are retard who doesnt know what is blinding blow(since you are talking about pw/aw) b)you are low lvl scrub,in shitty clan w/o clan skills(castle/fortress),fighting vs clan with dion/tanor fortress.
About evasion,how many melee's will go first for 85 stacked dagger before healers ?
Besides daggers already have retarded evasion compared to accuracy most of melees can get.
And well class called soulhound work only against terrible/boxed pts with bd/swm/wc who doesnt know what is resong/rebuff.
You would change ur mind if you ever had 9v9 which last longer than 3 d/s rounds, where u use both sublime and boe, with xx used brezes on both sides ^^ but u can stay in ur own fancy world i dun mind
lol if pwu/aw needed alwayes make blinding blow to get to healer means he runs for 15seconds after healer without stab and then with stab for 15secs? this is very retarded, yes u will do re d/s cov or bufs but u wont have again 83 skill, 4-5 dex does matter in all profs, th - because he has so fakin low of it i wouldnt touch it any more, pw- because he has alot and that's what makes pw so cool, aw- similiar to pw, but aw dyes are pure playstyle matter imo
Quote from: Lire on July 02, 2010, 07:36:52 PM
You would change ur mind if you ever had 9v9 which last longer than 3 d/s rounds, where u use both sublime and boe, with xx used brezes on both sides ^^ but u can stay in ur own fancy world i dun mind
Sublime/boe/lifeforce/maximum clarity,i would say you have enough mana for around 5/6 d/s rounds.
And yes you are right i have never saw such pvp in my life,where 9vs9 last so long,especially with all atributes/CC and such crap.
So i will just stay in my fancy world,where pvp last about 3 mins,and where ppl rebuff/resong after they got canceled.
P.S im talking about aw/th dyes,for pw yes its indeed quite dumb to lower your highest stat,and make some wannabe th.
therefore changing anything on th else then -con makes u wanna be crap ;/
Quote from: babyface on July 02, 2010, 07:43:02 PM
lol if pwu/aw needed alwayes make blinding blow to get to healer means he runs for 15seconds after healer without stab and then with stab for 15secs? this is very retarded, yes u will do re d/s cov or bufs but u wont have again 83 skill, 4-5 dex does matter in all profs, th - because he has so fakin low of it i wouldnt touch it any more, pw- because he has alot and that's what makes pw so cool, aw- similiar to pw, but aw dyes are pure playstyle matter imo
do you now such skill like dash omg..............(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F7899%2Fdashh.jpg&hash=ca44e0c13da5d7f8079f6e51245181f069ffc203)
(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg576.imageshack.us%2Fimg576%2F2674%2Flolspeed.jpg&hash=4f79dde6d305d1f78b8b337b9c5aa079c235ecf6)
Im sorry i just couldnt resist to post this screen with mm having 244 speed.
with 3x zerk?
gz i guess
Quote from: Guardian on July 02, 2010, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: babyface on July 02, 2010, 07:43:02 PM
lol if pwu/aw needed alwayes make blinding blow to get to healer means he runs for 15seconds after healer without stab and then with stab for 15secs? this is very retarded, yes u will do re d/s cov or bufs but u wont have again 83 skill, 4-5 dex does matter in all profs, th - because he has so fakin low of it i wouldnt touch it any more, pw- because he has alot and that's what makes pw so cool, aw- similiar to pw, but aw dyes are pure playstyle matter imo
do you now such skill like dash omg..............(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F7899%2Fdashh.jpg&hash=ca44e0c13da5d7f8079f6e51245181f069ffc203)
its just 15 seconds, and speed isnt only thing moved by dex
cool, i bet it was siege with those funny haste potions, hell knows how many zerkrs and what other crap, cool, it is possible tho its not alwayes
Quote from: Guardian on July 02, 2010, 08:09:42 PM
Quote from: babyface on July 02, 2010, 07:43:02 PM
lol if pwu/aw needed alwayes make blinding blow to get to healer means he runs for 15seconds after healer without stab and then with stab for 15secs? this is very retarded, yes u will do re d/s cov or bufs but u wont have again 83 skill, 4-5 dex does matter in all profs, th - because he has so fakin low of it i wouldnt touch it any more, pw- because he has alot and that's what makes pw so cool, aw- similiar to pw, but aw dyes are pure playstyle matter imo
do you now such skill like dash omg..............(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F7899%2Fdashh.jpg&hash=ca44e0c13da5d7f8079f6e51245181f069ffc203)
(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F7899%2Fdashh.jpg&hash=ca44e0c13da5d7f8079f6e51245181f069ffc203) + (https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.tinypic.com%2F2j4ah44.png&hash=f427c5bcf4b84a3c8a40d1bb346d8ea370d095f0) = WIN (c)DEX
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 08:38:08 PM
(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg576.imageshack.us%2Fimg576%2F2674%2Flolspeed.jpg&hash=4f79dde6d305d1f78b8b337b9c5aa079c235ecf6)
Im sorry i just couldnt resist to post this screen with mm having 244 speed.
nice resists
(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg6.imageshack.us%2Fimg6%2F7074%2Frofllmao.png&hash=993841d3f3e60814a9f7df5ed0d072a22338db41)
what is this i dont even
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 04:47:08 AM
because speed, evasion and attack speed are not important for a dagger?!?
I would go +4 str +5 dex -9 con on a th.
no dyes on aw,
elfs are ghey
Speed ?Yes it is important but than again dagger is one of the few class which have passive for ++speed(which you can enchant),i wont even talk about talismans/buffs and such crap.
Evasion ?No not rly for that you have UE GW/EA/WR.
Attack speed ?Since it doesnt affect skill re-use anymore,it has lost its value for classes which rely on skills,even more there are so many buffs which increase your attack speed(warrior trigger,Gfury),that i doubt you will notice that -50 attack speed loss.
And than again im talking about end-game.
[/quote]
you clearly have never played a dagger. please stop giving retarded advice about a class you don't know.
- end game, those small boosts from +dex make the difference. you enchant evasion for +2 evasion, why wouldn't you want another +1/2 evasion from dyes?
- in long fights you will end up using normal attacks as well. dex increases attack speed and crit rate.
- reuse is not affected by attack speed, but "cast" time of skill is. landing a lethal blow before your opponent could win you the match.
- the are a lot of buffs that increase speed, true. there are also a lot of debuffs that decrease speed. don't talk about self buffs because you're not on perma dash/ blinding blow
- and about those stupid comment to not make a th in a pw/aw...th with dyes has more dex/str/con than either pw/aw. human fighters simply have more of this cumulated stats than elfs/dark elfs.
seriously.. we are on RPG.. there's no such thing as endgame here
if a slh/db can stun/para lock whole party there's no place for discussion about endgame
dunno how you pr0s but 85 lvl daggers tend to make +5dex -5CON dont ask me why.. bcoz you can made up any shiit reason you wanna and it will just fit to your own idea of l2..
l2j trash from all the possible servers out there nolifing 4 months start to call those lolpvps endgame..
I just spotted somewhere Binkz crying about kamaels.. rotfl
sory for weak flame lol but any topic here about game mechanics is the same.. first a wave of l2j nerds who know shit, than some DV quotes and than brilliant conclusions which has nothing in common with endgame on EU/RU retail.
instead of making fools of urself on forums, go kill mobs, it will get you closer to the endgame you are so so crazy about
Quote from: KnGhtmRe on July 03, 2010, 10:13:13 AM
[you clearly have never played a dagger. please stop giving retarded advice about a class you don't know.
- end game, those small boosts from +dex make the difference. you enchant evasion for +2 evasion, why wouldn't you want another +1/2 evasion from dyes?
- in long fights you will end up using normal attacks as well. dex increases attack speed and crit rate.
- reuse is not affected by attack speed, but "cast" time of skill is. landing a lethal blow before your opponent could win you the match.
- the are a lot of buffs that increase speed, true. there are also a lot of debuffs that decrease speed. don't talk about self buffs because you're not on perma dash/ blinding blow
- and about those stupid comment to not make a th in a pw/aw...th with dyes has more dex/str/con than either pw/aw. human fighters simply have more of this cumulated stats than elfs/dark elfs.
are you talking from an olympiad or outside pvp end game perspective ?
the bonuses from dex won't ever change shit in a fight. attack speed? greater fury, evasion ? 1/2/3 evasion won't change shit in a fight. 10 crit rate from dex will matter in a long fight, sure.
end game = individual and group skill+epics+levels+oe skills+mp management
Quote from: KnGhtmRe on July 03, 2010, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: Relic on July 02, 2010, 04:47:08 AM
because speed, evasion and attack speed are not important for a dagger?!?
I would go +4 str +5 dex -9 con on a th.
no dyes on aw,
elfs are ghey
Speed ?Yes it is important but than again dagger is one of the few class which have passive for ++speed(which you can enchant),i wont even talk about talismans/buffs and such crap.
Evasion ?No not rly for that you have UE GW/EA/WR.
Attack speed ?Since it doesnt affect skill re-use anymore,it has lost its value for classes which rely on skills,even more there are so many buffs which increase your attack speed(warrior trigger,Gfury),that i doubt you will notice that -50 attack speed loss.
And than again im talking about end-game.
you clearly have never played a dagger. please stop giving retarded advice about a class you don't know.
- end game, those small boosts from +dex make the difference. you enchant evasion for +2 evasion, why wouldn't you want another +1/2 evasion from dyes?
- in long fights you will end up using normal attacks as well. dex increases attack speed and crit rate.
- reuse is not affected by attack speed, but "cast" time of skill is. landing a lethal blow before your opponent could win you the match.
- the are a lot of buffs that increase speed, true. there are also a lot of debuffs that decrease speed. don't talk about self buffs because you're not on perma dash/ blinding blow
- and about those stupid comment to not make a th in a pw/aw...th with dyes has more dex/str/con than either pw/aw. human fighters simply have more of this cumulated stats than elfs/dark elfs.
[/quote]
I dont even have to play this game to know that boosting dex is dumb.
About rest i wont even bother vaurk already answered.
well guys
(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg171.imageshack.us%2Fimg171%2F1449%2Fstatsad.png&hash=6703d0e9766d44dfaa03de51ef8853b096fb9890)
so, we cant lower the DEX because all classes have more than TH even w/o dyes,
Quote from: vaurk on July 03, 2010, 01:50:28 PM
are you talking from an olympiad or outside pvp end game perspective ?
the bonuses from dex won't ever change shit in a fight. attack speed? greater fury, evasion ? 1/2/3 evasion won't change shit in a fight. 10 crit rate from dex will matter in a long fight, sure.
end game = individual and group skill+epics+levels+oe skills+mp management
why? only one of that scenarios applies to daggers? if your a dagger you either play oly OR outside pvp? you can't do both?
some bonuses apply to oly (like crit rate, atk speed) some apply to both (like speed, evasion)
don't give me crap like some extra of any stat doesn't count. then why are u taking subs skills of they don't count? why enchant skills if just a few from dyes doesn't count?
u're talking theory and ur theory doesn't apply to both scenarios.
you get max attack speed outside oly so what's the point of going +dex FOR the attack speed? same for the small crit rate and evasion. might matter in oly but outside it doesn't. 50 attack speed might matter in oly but not outside.
sub skills +4 evasion/30% attack speed have no disadvantages unlike dyes. you think thats comparable? sub skills arent some extra stat, they're considerable stats increase and you don't lower your CON or STR.
same with enchant skills. +20 ue compared to +0 ue, you think you can compare that with 5 speed/30 crit rate/whatever?
it's not theory, it's experience. you're talking about full buffed and s/d all time. pvp is not always at full buff.
it's true that gimping con have some disadvantages, but the advantages you get from increasing dex make up for that IMO. daggers main defensive advantages are speed and evasion, not pdef, not high hp, not a lot of cp. so further increasing those for the cost a few hp points and some cp pots is worth it.
Quote from: KnGhtmRe on July 03, 2010, 06:49:10 PM
it's not theory, it's experience. you're talking about full buffed and s/d all time. pvp is not always at full buff.
it's true that gimping con have some disadvantages, but the advantages you get from increasing dex make up for that IMO. daggers main defensive advantages are speed and evasion, not pdef, not high hp, not a lot of cp. so further increasing those for the cost a few hp points and some cp pots is worth it.
well let see -500hp for +5 speed and 10crit rate yeah it's fucking worth................not :D
w/o buffs:
(https://smf2.rpg-club.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg29.imageshack.us%2Fimg29%2F2899%2Fdrlas.png&hash=7b010de6e2105d4aa80789c5b8ac734a9aaad577)
STR+4, DEX-4
78 doomcryer buffs w/o cov at dash 248 speed,
w/o dash = 167 speed
also we have 5670 hp, and 6804 with cov
STR+4, DEX+4, CON-8
78 doomcryer buffs w/o cov at dash 262 speed (max 250)
w/o dash = 176 speed
also we have 4482 hp, and 5379 with cov
STR+4, CON-4
78 doomcryer buffs w/o cov at dash 255 speed (max 250)
w/o dash = 171 speed
also we have 5057 hp, and 6068 with cov
why you put taht calculator, it's obvisouly outdated and outdated a lot
no wai
Str increases blow dmg, dex increases it's land rate, If u -str on any dagger, you are ei BIG NOOB! +str is a must for any pro dagger, especially for AW. +3str-3con, +1dex-1con are my all time fav dye build for daggers. And as far as I know, p.atk doesn't have anything to do with blow dmg!
Quote from: Lvnatic on July 04, 2010, 11:44:04 PM
Str increases blow dmg, dex increases it's land rate, If u -str on any dagger, you are ei BIG NOOB! +str is a must for any pro dagger, especially for AW. +3str-3con, +1dex-1con are my all time fav dye build for daggers. And as far as I know, p.atk doesn't have anything to do with blow dmg!
are you trolling or are you just plain stupid?
No. just saying facts.
ok so STR increases blow dmg, but p atk is in no way related to skill damage.
Exactly, thats how blows work. A no grade dagger and a vesper one both deal exactly the same dmg from blows. On high rate servers where there are mana pots daggers don't even buff might, etc. cause that's a buff slot that could be used for a resist or something more useful. So the most important thing on a dagger is the SA (CD preferably or back blow).
Unless they changed this in newer chronicles, I'm 100% right.
ok you're really stupid
Quote from: Lvnatic on July 05, 2010, 12:42:43 AM
Exactly, thats how blows work. A no grade dagger and a vesper one both deal exactly the same dmg from blows. On high rate servers where there are mana pots daggers don't even buff might, etc. cause that's a buff slot that could be used for a resist or something more useful. So the most important thing on a dagger is the SA (CD preferably or back blow).
Unless they changed this in newer chronicles, I'm 100% right.
Nice comparison rpg with some l2j buggeland :D :D :D
Quote from: Lvnatic on July 05, 2010, 12:42:43 AM
A no grade dagger and a vesper one both deal exactly the same dmg from blows.
gratz
Quote from: Guardian on July 04, 2010, 01:00:07 PM
well let see -500hp for +5 speed and 10crit rate yeah it's fucking worth................not :D
+evasion +atk.spd.
Dagger is a rogue, he hits and run, that's why he's fast and has reduced protection, he doesn't go in the middle of an open fight and stays there, that's what tanks are for. He blows, he's gone. NC made him like that, and it's the best way it can be played. +4dex+4con-8str is the most epic fail build a dagger could get, ever! You also don't need too much dex, cause from behind you land almost any blow, if you waste mana on blows from the front, better reroll on a different class. If you don't believe the things I said about the stats, I dun give a sh1t. If p.atk has ever had any influence on the blow dmg, it's very very insignificant, but str does. Make a fuking test. Try -8 str and then +8 str, you'll notice a difference of thousands of damage. Then try with a no grade dagger, then with a S one, you'll notice a very small difference, if not at all. Most important thing on a knife is the CD SA IMHO.
Quote from: Lvnatic on July 05, 2010, 04:40:40 PM
Dagger is a rogue, he hits and run, that's why he's fast and has reduced protection, he doesn't go in the middle of an open fight and stays there, that's what tanks are for. He blows, he's gone. NC made him like that, and it's the best way it can be played. +4dex+4con-8str is the most epic fail build a dagger could get, ever! You also don't need too much dex, cause from behind you land almost any blow, if you waste mana on blows from the front, better reroll on a different class. If you don't believe the things I said about the stats, I dun give a sh1t. If p.atk has ever had any influence on the blow dmg, it's very very insignificant, but str does. Make a fuking test. Try -8 str and then +8 str, you'll notice a difference of thousands of damage. Then try with a no grade dagger, then with a S one, you'll notice a very small difference, if not at all. Most important thing on a knife is the CD SA IMHO.
u mad ?
Quote from: Lvnatic on July 05, 2010, 04:40:40 PM
Dagger is a rogue, he hits and run, that's why he's fast and has reduced protection, he doesn't go in the middle of an open fight and stays there, that's what tanks are for. He blows, he's gone. NC made him like that, and it's the best way it can be played. +4dex+4con-8str is the most epic fail build a dagger could get, ever! You also don't need too much dex, cause from behind you land almost any blow, if you waste mana on blows from the front, better reroll on a different class. If you don't believe the things I said about the stats, I dun give a sh1t. If p.atk has ever had any influence on the blow dmg, it's very very insignificant, but str does. Make a fuking test. Try -8 str and then +8 str, you'll notice a difference of thousands of damage. Then try with a no grade dagger, then with a S one, you'll notice a very small difference, if not at all. Most important thing on a knife is the CD SA IMHO.
+12 STR is ok?
lets make it +17, why stop at low numbers!
It was just an example fart faces, to see how huge the difference is.
Quote from: Lvnatic on July 05, 2010, 07:46:21 PM
It was just an example fart faces, to see how huge the difference is.
The problem is you cant put more than +5 on any stat. I mean yes, you can, but wont have any effect. ;)
you can, pl set and +4 str dyes
Quote from: hello on July 05, 2010, 09:15:20 PM
you can, pl set and +4 str dyes
Sure, you can use pated set, and put +5 str too, so it will be +9 str, but he talkd about dyes, not about set bonus.
Quote from: Raikiri on July 05, 2010, 09:33:46 PM
Quote from: hello on July 05, 2010, 09:15:20 PM
you can, pl set and +4 str dyes
Sure, you can use pated set, and put +5 str too, so it will be +9 str, but he talkd about dyes, not about set bonus.
Yes I did indeed, my bad sry for that, but you got my point.
Quote from: Raikiri on July 05, 2010, 09:33:46 PM
Quote from: hello on July 05, 2010, 09:15:20 PM
you can, pl set and +4 str dyes
Sure, you can use pated set, and put +5 str too, so it will be +9 str, but he talkd about dyes, not about set bonus.
that's not the point, point is you can test with +8 STR and -8 STR (even tho he was wrong in his initial post about p atk/str influence)
my view on lol pw when i firstly tried +5 str w/o pl at lvl 74 when i got eva chance:
buffed eva chance mortal strike and went stabing npc
had mana for like 12 stabs
first 4 were crits
and 7 crits total in those 12 tries
tried it a lot times and it was like 45% stab crit chance
never tested it again with assasi
i left my pw w/ +5str-con cos of it and a fact i got a lot more to farm and these r good for this